Europa League: Benfica - Juventus

[Elvis the Pelvis]

Things went down before that for Serie A.

All of the 00s were already dominated by the marketing machine of the Premier League.

That's a fact.

The Serie A was the best league from the 80's, until mid 90's. The change came in 1996 when the Euro took place in England. The Italian league remained the best for a couple more years, but England and Spain started to change the landscape of european football by that time.

Nowadays, the Serie A is the 4th best league in Europe, even the Bundesliga as overtaken them.

[JUVENTINO]

Things went down before that for Serie A.

All of the 00s were already dominated by the marketing machine of the Premier League.

ok, but in 2003 In the Munchester champion's leage final there was Juventus and Milan, not Liverpool and Munchester utd ... and if we remeber correctly tahe semifinal match was Juventus-real madrid and Inter-Milan.
No english teams in semifinal.

[Festivus]

I think Italians are the best race of salesman on earth. They sell an idea - than the product.

Ferrari and Lamborghini represent sex, money, power..and then a car built of varying quality depending on what decade you bought it. Same with their fashion industry and their stereo type of themselves which they have excellently given the world. 'Bella Italia... style.. passion...sexiness..'

I believed all of that until I actually visited Italy. The reason? I went out with an Italian girl for 5 years from San Donato Val di Comino.

First impressions? The only thing truely beautiful about Italy is the country itself. Beautiful landscape, lovely architecture etc.

The bad? I have never seen such poverty besides in Brazil. The people in many regions, especially heading south have nothing. I mean poverty you dont even see in Greece. the place is simply over populated. However the worse? I went to Naples for a week. Again, the crime I experienced first hand in Naples makes Brazil look like Switzerland. Also I found the Italians genuinely extremely moody and unfriendly. We also had to visit a doctor while there - it was like going back 60 years... I have now been to Italy about 5 times. Most the time just across the border from France although I have been to Rome and Torino - which I liked. I have also been skiing there in the Italian Alps.

One of the most important factors for Italy to maintain its myth of being sexy, civilsed and advanced is the fact that so few people who promote Italy have actually ever been there. Same with Brazil. When someone mentions Brazil - you think - sexiness, samba.. passion.  None of that exists - it is all mythology although I must admit the women at least in Brazil are exceptionally beautiful.

I barely know Italy. Been to Como, Sirmione and Verona only. Haven't even been to Rome, Florence or Milan. Sirmione and Verona had pretty nice architecture indeed. As for the Italians, haven't really interacted much with them, but they did come across as being very proud people to me. Not rude, though.

[Jotenko]

I think Italians are the best race of salesman on earth. They sell an idea - than the product.

Ferrari and Lamborghini represent sex, money, power..and then a car built of varying quality depending on what decade you bought it. Same with their fashion industry and their stereo type of themselves which they have excellently given the world. 'Bella Italia... style.. passion...sexiness..'

I believed all of that until I actually visited Italy. The reason? I went out with an Italian girl for 5 years from San Donato Val di Comino.

First impressions? The only thing truely beautiful about Italy is the country itself. Beautiful landscape, lovely architecture etc.

The bad? I have never seen such poverty besides in Brazil. The people in many regions, especially heading south have nothing. I mean poverty you dont even see in Greece. the place is simply over populated. However the worse? I went to Naples for a week. Again, the crime I experienced first hand in Naples makes Brazil look like Switzerland. Also I found the Italians genuinely extremely moody and unfriendly. We also had to visit a doctor while there - it was like going back 60 years... I have now been to Italy about 5 times. Most the time just across the border from France although I have been to Rome and Torino - which I liked. I have also been skiing there in the Italian Alps.

One of the most important factors for Italy to maintain its myth of being sexy, civilsed and advanced is the fact that so few people who promote Italy have actually ever been there. Same with Brazil. When someone mentions Brazil - you think - sexiness, samba.. passion.  None of that exists - it is all mythology although I must admit the women at least in Brazil are exceptionally beautiful.

I barely know Italy. Been to Como, Sirmione and Verona only. Haven't even been to Rome, Florence or Milan. Sirmione and Verona had pretty nice architecture indeed. As for the Italians, haven't really interacted much with them, but they did come across as being very proud people to me. Not rude, though.

Faliro, have you ever been here in Portugal, and how do you compare Portugal, Greece, Italy and Spain, given the fact we're all pretty much alike in paper.

[Elvis the Pelvis]

I think it's very hard, almost impossible, to dislike Italy and the Italians in general. They're pretty similar with us. The same applies to the greeks and spaniards.

As for italian football, i used to be a big fan back in the 90's. The Serie A was the best league by far. Those were the days. In the last couple of years, the league has downgraded a lot. Maybe in the future, we can see italian clubs back at the top.

Spain is our old rival/enemy. It's perfectly natural to dislike them. Italy and Greece aren't rivals/enemies.

I don't agree with the part regarding Spain, but whatever. Anyone can have they're own opinion.

I'm not saying I hate them. In fact, I'm quite indifferent to them. Just saying it's natural for people to dislike them.

I've personally always preferred countries like Germany, the Netherlands, Norway, etc.

It's not natural at all, that's just your opinion. It's not a fact that all portuguese people dislikes Spain, or sees them as rival/enemy.

And i'm pretty much the opposite, since i don't like people from northern europe. We as portuguese, have much more in common with the Spaniards, Italians and Greeks.

@I agree Sousa. I also love Spain. I've studied in a Spanish college in Lisbon for 5 years.

[Festivus]

I think it's very hard, almost impossible, to dislike Italy and the Italians in general. They're pretty similar with us. The same applies to the greeks and spaniards.

As for italian football, i used to be a big fan back in the 90's. The Serie A was the best league by far. Those were the days. In the last couple of years, the league has downgraded a lot. Maybe in the future, we can see italian clubs back at the top.

Spain is our old rival/enemy. It's perfectly natural to dislike them. Italy and Greece aren't rivals/enemies.

I don't agree with the part regarding Spain, but whatever. Anyone can have they're own opinion.

I'm not saying I hate them. In fact, I'm quite indifferent to them. Just saying it's natural for people to dislike them.

I've personally always preferred countries like Germany, the Netherlands, Norway, etc.

It's not natural at all, that's just your opinion. It's not a fact that all portuguese people dislikes Spain, or sees them as rival/enemy.

And i'm pretty much the opposite, since i don't like people from northern europe. We as portuguese, have much more in common with the Spaniards, Italians and Greeks.

@I agree Sousa. I also love Spain. I've studied in a Spanish college in Lisbon for 5 years.

I'm sure most are just indifferent to them, just like me. But if you go anywhere in the world, don't be surprised that when people dislike a country/people is usually their neighbors.

It's not really about liking the people from central/northern people. but those countries' culture(language, architecture, etc). Although, Dutch and Norwegians are pretty friendly people, from my experience.

[pcssousa]

Do you like northern/central Europe languages? I don't... Seems like they are always barking...

[Festivus]

Do you like northern/central Europe languages? I don't... Seems like they are always barking...

I do. I find German pretty cool sounding and looking. Dutch sounds ugly.. in a hilarious way. Norwegian sounds pretty jolly and funny to my ears as well. And, naturally, I like English. Danish is kinda ugly, though. And Swedish is pretty average.

When it comes to Romance languages, I'm not big on any. I guess French is the best one, but I still find it kinda average.

[Elvis the Pelvis]

That's an opinion, Festivus. It's respectable, but i don't agree.

[pcssousa]

Not talking about English, naturally.
Central/northern European languages are barbaric ones. German is the worse of all. All that yelling, all that "barking"... God help us...

English is the easiest tong in the world, simple vocabulary, simple grammar.

[Faliro]

I think Italians are the best race of salesman on earth. They sell an idea - than the product.

Ferrari and Lamborghini represent sex, money, power..and then a car built of varying quality depending on what decade you bought it. Same with their fashion industry and their stereo type of themselves which they have excellently given the world. 'Bella Italia... style.. passion...sexiness..'

I believed all of that until I actually visited Italy. The reason? I went out with an Italian girl for 5 years from San Donato Val di Comino.

First impressions? The only thing truely beautiful about Italy is the country itself. Beautiful landscape, lovely architecture etc.

The bad? I have never seen such poverty besides in Brazil. The people in many regions, especially heading south have nothing. I mean poverty you dont even see in Greece. the place is simply over populated. However the worse? I went to Naples for a week. Again, the crime I experienced first hand in Naples makes Brazil look like Switzerland. Also I found the Italians genuinely extremely moody and unfriendly. We also had to visit a doctor while there - it was like going back 60 years... I have now been to Italy about 5 times. Most the time just across the border from France although I have been to Rome and Torino - which I liked. I have also been skiing there in the Italian Alps.

One of the most important factors for Italy to maintain its myth of being sexy, civilsed and advanced is the fact that so few people who promote Italy have actually ever been there. Same with Brazil. When someone mentions Brazil - you think - sexiness, samba.. passion.  None of that exists - it is all mythology although I must admit the women at least in Brazil are exceptionally beautiful.

I barely know Italy. Been to Como, Sirmione and Verona only. Haven't even been to Rome, Florence or Milan. Sirmione and Verona had pretty nice architecture indeed. As for the Italians, haven't really interacted much with them, but they did come across as being very proud people to me. Not rude, though.

Faliro, have you ever been here in Portugal, and how do you compare Portugal, Greece, Italy and Spain, given the fact we're all pretty much alike in paper.

Sadly I have only been to Lisbon airport for stop overs - about 5 times, on my way to Brazil..

However, the airport seems exceptionally nice and the Portuguese seem friendly and can share a joke. Also the women seem very friendly.  When we would fly over Lisbon, I could see clearly all the houses and even the stadium. It looks like a great place. My friend says it is his favorite place to go for a weekend of fun and has many portuguese friends from there.

Spain I love. Civilised, nice weather, nice architecture - history, nice women - I just find Spain a very cool place. I especially like the Balerics and Catalunya. Nice beaches, nice atmosphere..I even thought Madrid was a nice place too. I would like to go to San Sabastian and the north just for the food as for me, the only thing I am not crazy about is the food in the south (besides the jamons) - however I always enjoy Basque and Galicean food - which I find excellent.

Now the complicated matter of comparisons... Personally - I like to be relaxed in a country, so southern Italy, where people buzz around you like flies and are always in your business is out the question. I find Italy a very hard land to live in.

Spain - easy life.

Greece - even easier - Greece is home of the bar - the fat guy relaxing in his flat watching football his plasma tv. Also Athens has very little in common with other cities in Spain, Portugal, Italy and France. It looks different and feels different. I say that because there are countless towns in Spain, France and Italy that look almost identical.

From what I can see, Greece and Spain have much in common. Portugal.. I am sure if it wasn't for the language, many portuguese would not have to change much of their habits to live in Greece or Spain... Italy is its own animal.

As for peoples, I would say Greeks are the most relaxed and simply don't care about much of anything. They have the moody aspect Italians have but they are far more fun loving than Italians - who only seem to go crazy when they go on holiday.

Spanish are quite proud and but can be too clever for their own good sometimes. I feel if they were slightly more advanced mentally, their country could be a world beater but they have a bit too much arrogance. Portuguese, from my experiences have certain aspects of western Spanish populations but at the same time have a distinct character which means you can't confuse the two peoples. In London, most the Greeks Spanish and Portuguese would grow up together and be friends however there were many many marriages between spanish and italians.. which from what I could see, almost always ended badly..

I am not that keen on northern europeans and dislike in general germans who I find neurotic.

For me, the true beauty of the Mediterranean is the landscape, not the people.. after all..who can resist...

[JUVENTINO]

One question for you: is Juventus really guilty?
Not judging, cause even if you were, you were punished for it and it seems like other teams were also involved and punished. And Milan was also punished many years ago.

If you're not guilty, who framed you, for what reasons?

The story is very complex.
In 2006, the then leadership ( Moggi, Giraudo and Bettega ) wanted to become the owners of juventus .
This was seen in a bad eye by the owners of Fiat.
It took a scandal to oust Moggi and partners.
Calciopoli was born .
Do you think that , in the process sporty , juventus 's lawyer said : " The series B with penalty points is a just punishment ."
O my God , the one who had to defend Juve had condemned before the courts ... this is madness.

There was talk of warnings targeted for players of the teams they faced the juventus the next round , but it was discovered ( after a long time and made ​​the process ) that many of those players were not even warned .
There was talk of referees rigged draw , but even here the ordinary court (contrary to what sport) has ruled that the draw was correct.
Moggi was accused of having locked a referee in the locker room , which was absolutely out of the ordinary court .
I still remember the prosecutor said, " Inter do not exist incriminating phone calls on referees " ... years later Inter was graced by the prescription of crimes and many phone calls have been found .
What I wrote is just the tip of the iceberg.
The scandal also involved other teams, but only the juventus was sent to B, while AC Milan ( director had a direct telephone contact with the referees )was downgraded by 8 points, just to play in the CL, then won.

[Jotenko]

Great post, thanks!

[pcssousa]

I believe Greeks have many stories regarding Italians and Germans from the WW II days...

[Faliro]

The Germans were exceptionally cruel to the Greek civilians and 300,000 Greeks starved to death in one year under the occupation. The germans also burned monasteries and massacred various villages..

The Italians were there for fun. They didn't believe in the war and when they tried to invade Greece just before the Germans, they were easily beaten by the Greeks. The Italians who took most the islands thanks to the germans..were shocked at how similar Greek culture was to their own.. wine, music, olive oil... no one was bothered by the Italians.. to give an example.. after the war.. any woman who had slept with a german soldier under the occupation was usually murdered in the town square and left to rot.. however I am sure many Greek girls slept with Italians and no one cared..

Going further back the ventetians who ruled many Greek islands were very cruel also and Greeks were treated like animals by the venetians.. Turks, Jews and Genoese were all placed above Greeks by the Venetians..even though the majority of each island was almost 98% Greek.. however that did more damage to religion than personality...meaning.. Greeks have bad memories of catholics from the crusades up until the venetians..because of this bad treatment, greeks often returned the favour and would not even bother to give a funeral or a grave to anyone who died who was assumed to be a catholic.. but that stuff all ended before the first world war.