Portuguese culture

[H]

Fucking Sepultura, mate. Pantera works fine too, but only with the glam albums!

People work out to their glam albums? I personally stick to Vulgar Display of Power.

Overkill is a good band to workout to as well.

I was just messing with you, those albums are a goddamn abomination!

Power Metal really isn't that bad.

Helloween is quite fine, old sport.

[H]

As you might now Faliro, I'm quite a fan of polyphonic chants, such as the ones found in byzantine music. Today I was listening to these monks of Simonopetra Monastery and there is one track that sounds like Spanish or even Portuguese in several parts. It starts at 43:11, it's called Canon of the Theotokos:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bm0O_eeyycU

Anyway, I just thought it very curious, but by the way can you tell me roughly what they are singing about? Probably about Christ or some other religious stuff, right?

[Faliro]

I am afraid my Greek is very weak.. However these chants are not very complicated for Greeks in Greece to understand.

There construction is in a poetic form. I found this website that should give you the full translation. The main part I understood and it is asking Theotokos to 'save us.'

http://www.orthodoxchristian.info/pages/main.htm

[H]

Thanks a lot man!

[Faliro]

In fact H,  i just asked a Greek friend to look at it for me. So scrap what I said! 

My friend said it is a famous hymn.

The first part:

"Ωδήν επινίκιον άσωμεν πάντες Θεώ τω ποιήσαντι θαυμαστά τέρατα, βραχίονι υψηλώ και σώσαντι τον Ισραήλ ότι δεδόξασται."

means:

"Lets all sing a hymn for victory to God, the maker of wondrous creations, worthy of glory for lifting his hand and saving Israel"

"Υπεραγία Θεοτόκε σώσον ημάς"

Oh most holy mother of god save us

"Ωδή παρακλήσεως τη Θεοτόκω, πιστοί προσενέγκωμεν, ιλασμόν αιτούμενοι, των εγκλημάτων ημών, και του εχθρού αποφυγήν και σωτηρία ψυχών."

A song of supplication to the mother of god lets all offer, requesting salvation, and avoidance of our crimes and our enemies"

and so on..

This is the full Hymn you can put in Google translate:

Ωδήν επινίκιον άσωμεν πάντες Θεώ τω ποιήσαντι θαυμαστά τέρατα, βραχίονι υψηλώ και σώσαντι τον Ισραήλ ότι δεδόξασται.

Υπεραγία Θεοτόκε σώσον ημάς
Ωδή παρακλήσεως τη Θεοτόκω, πιστοί προσενέγκωμεν, ιλασμόν αιτούμενοι, των εγκλημάτων ημών, και του εχθρού αποφυγήν και σωτηρία ψυχών.

Υπεραγία Θεοτόκε σώσον ημάς
Ελέους την άβυσσον η τετοκυία, ελέησον οίκτειρον, την εμήν ασθένειαν θεοχαρίτωτε, και χειραγώγησον προς φως της κατανύξεως.

Υπεραγία Θεοτόκε σώσον ημάς
Υψώθην ο άθλιος τη απονία, αρθείς το φρονήματι, και εις βόθρον πέπτωκα των παραπτώσεων˙ τη μετανοία με αγνή, πάλιν ανόρθωσον.

Υπεραγία Θεοτόκε σώσον ημάς
Μυρίοις εγκλημασιν αμαρτημάτων, βαρούμενος άχραντε, σοι προσπίπτω δέξαι με, μετανοούντα θερμώς, και ιλεών μοι τον κριτήν, ποίησον Δέσποινα

Υπεραγία Θεοτόκε σώσον ημάς
Ο θρόνος ο του Θεού, των Χερουβίμ ο υπέρτερος˙ νεφέλη του φωτός, ψυχής μου τα όμματα, Παναγία φώτισον, και παθών αχλύος, την καρδία μου καθάρισον.

Υπεραγία Θεοτόκε σώσον ημάς
Η μήτηρ του λυτρωτού˙ και των κτισμάτων βασίλισσα, αιχμαλωσίας δεινή, ληφθέντα με λύτρωσαι, Μαρία Πανάμωμε˙ και της βασιλείας, του υιού σου καταξίωσον.

Υπεραγία Θεοτόκε σώσον ημάς
Η κλήσις σου αληθώς, ψυχών υπάρχει καθάρσιον˙ και ρυπαρών λογισμών, εστιν ελατήριον, και φυγαδευτήριον, πονηρών πνευμάτων, Θεοτόκε αειπάρθενε.

Υπεραγία Θεοτόκε σώσον ημάς
Ασμάτων άσμα συ ει, Θεοχαρίτωτε Δέσποινα˙ Αγγέλων η καλλονή˙ βροτών η ανάπλασις˙ Θεόν γαρ εγέννησας, σεσωματωμένον, τον τας φύσεις μεταλάττοντα.

Υπεραγία Θεοτόκε σώσον ημάς
Θυγατέρες σπεύσατε, της Αγίας Ιερουσαλήμ, θεάσασθαι μορφήν, νύμφης ευκλεούς, Μαρίαν την άχραντον, και ευσεβώς άσατε αυτή˙ χαίρε Πανύμνητε, Θεοτόκε η χαρά ημών.

Υπεραγία Θεοτόκε σώσον ημάς
Εκλεκτή ευπρόσδεκτως ανεδείχθης όλη τω Θεώ˙ ως κρίνον ανθηρόν μέσον ακανθών˙ αφ' ων σε οσφράδιον Παρθενικόν, εύρεν εαυτώ, και σε ανέδειξε, προστασία των τιμώντων σε.

Δόξα Πατρί και Υιώ και Άγιω Πνεύματι
Νάρδος αποστάζουσα, αρωμάτων άφθορε σεμνή˙ καλή εν γυναιξίν, ώφθης αληθώς˙ ωραία η όψις σου και η φωνή πλήρης αγαθών˙ λύτρον γαρ έτεκες, των πταισμάτων τοις υμνούσι σε.

Και νυν και αεί και εις τους αιώνας των αιώνων αμήν
Η ψυχή μου Δέσποινα, εκολλήθη όλη ψαλμικώς, οπίσω σου τοιγαρούν σου η δεξιά, εμού αντιλάβοιτο εκδυσωπώ, σώζουσα με νυν, και περιέπουσα, και φρουρούσα και σκεπάζουα.

Ησαΐα χόρευε, η Παρθένος έσχεν εν γαστρί, και έτεκεν υιόν τον Εμμανουήλ, Θεόν τε και άνθρωπον. Ανατολή, όνομα αυτώ, ον μεγαλυνοντες, την Παρθένον μακαρίζομεν.

http://www.orthodoxos.com.gr/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=2134

[H]

Ah that's great, thank you so much! With the Greek lyrics I can now follow the song as they sing it. You're the man!

[Faliro]

It is hard to translate because many words are Byzantine Greek that have fallen out of use.

Also H, I think I have something you will really appreciate.

It is a documentary on the Athos peninsular including Simonopetra. Very very rarely are cameras allowed there and this documentary is absolutely stunning. The Americans were persistent and finally allowed to go there and film and interview. What they show is the world of 11AD and it takes your breath away. This is the original Christianity. Even when the Ottomans took over in the 1500s they did not touch this peninsular... just taxed the crap out of it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl61ORkXUWQ

As you know, I am not religious at all, however it is truly fascinating. Hope you like it.

[H]

Shit man, that looks like something I would pay to watch in a movie theatre, extremely interesting. I owe big, big time!

[Faliro]

I think you will love it. It is simply another world. How they have managed to preserve everything - architecture, food recipes, liturgies, festivals, sleeping patterns - even the Byzantine clock system (the day begins as sunset) is sensational.

Super super documentry and you also see the monks who sing your hymn at Simonopetra. 

[H]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cl61ORkXUWQ

Just saw this Faliro, thank you very much, it was an amazing glimpse of Mount Athos, although I didn't completely enjoy the American interviewer's stance at times, it could have shown a bit more respect like for example when one priest talks abou his decision not to visit his dying father or when he heard about the monks appeal for Hitler to protect the peninsula. I mean, to me it's pretty obvious that since Greece was already invaded by the Nazis, it would be wise to ask to the now invading dictator to at least don't let his troops pillage and destroy the place like they did in Poland, Belarus, Russia, etc., but that seems to be something difficult to grasp for his simple American mind.

Anyways, one day I would definitely love to go there and stay there for some time. Even though I'm not religious as you know, to me it would be a sublime experience, just to walk on the woods next to the monasteries and through the monasteries themselves, just laying there enjoying the silent and peaceful life taken by the monks, or even help them with their tasks, catching fruit or fixing the trails, or learning the chants and some Greek as well. Do you happen to know, how much it would cost to get there and how difficult it is to actually be able to do that?

[Faliro]

Glad you enjoyed it!!! 

From what I know H, it is free. The monks can't charge you money because I think they follow Christ's example quite strictly. So you have free food, free cell to sleep in... I could be wrong... but the only prices I see are those to get to the peninsula. Last I heard a 4 day permit is €30 and with that you get to time travel back to 1500.. Many foreigners and non Orthodox visit - many out of curiosity most probably..  The forest is mostly unchanged since antiquity and perhaps before. It is not often discussed but the site has contained ancient Greek cities that are now lost.

http://www.athosfriends.org/PilgrimsGuide/costs/

The American interviewer was a little shallow.. and if he really wanted gossip and intrigue, he should have discussed the rebel monks who refused to leave their monastery and no longer recognise the Patriarch - held police as hostages to get their monks released! Monks with cocktail molotovs...illegal land swap deals etc... Yes... where ever there are Greeks... you know.. 

[H]

Haha, truly everything is possible in Greece man!

Sorry man, I think I may have explained myself poorly, I meant to say the costs of getting there, because I understood you have to find a way to get to Ouranoupolis and then you also have to get a ferry, but you already provided me with the information on that link you posted, so thanks.

Listen, would it be too much if I asked you, on your free time, to take just a quick search perhaps on Greek pages (since they probably contain more and specific information) or to ask someone about the possibility of staying in Mt. Athos for more than four days? Because I was searching in Google and it says everywhere that the maximum stay available is the 4-day permit.

The reason why, is simply because I wouldn't like to go there as in a tourist fashion, if you understand me. To go there, I wouldn't want to be there taking pictures with a camera, dressed like a tourist in shorts, speaking loud, cracking jokes and overall behaving like someone who is only there out of curiosity, with the kids and the wife, looking at all that with a dumb face, just to get back four days later to my 8:00 to 18:00 office job on the city, eating cheeseburgers and watching shitty soap operas. To go there, it would be extremely good to stay for longer, maybe several months if possible, in a whole different way. Like I said, I wouldn't mind at all to actually find a job of any sort, maybe learning some Greek before-hand and just live like an ordinary monk in a way, sleeping in the same conditions and eating the same food, sharing some of their habits or duties as well.

This may sound weird, or downright dumb, given I'm not religious like I told you, but I believe that the reverence I give to the ordinary simple life, away from the modern standards, the passion I have towards Nature and honest work and being, has some echoes in their religious beliefs in some way and wouldn't make me all that different from them.

It seems selfish for me to ask you this, but since you're the only Greek person I talk more or less regularly, you seemed like the first option to address. If it's too bothersome to you, I can try to get in touch with it through other ways, nowadays with the Internet it shouldn't not too difficult to do that.

[Faliro]

Hahahaha!!

Well firstly my Greek is terrible and I am sure most Greeks see me as foreign as you can see from my facebook name is non Greek! I have a Greek grandfather who has been dead 34 years  and Greeks are not sentimental enough about that to welcome in to their inner rituals!!  Having said that I have some excellent Greek friends, mostly through Olympiacos.. 

Also, you will not be allowed to take a video camera think, or wear shorts etc... it is a very serious place H... you wont see any tourists, just pilgrims and curious intellectuals etc..


This is the page you need. I will be amazed if the person on the end of the phone does not speak English. You just have to use your charm..  I think they only give 4 day visas.. however I am not sure how they enforce that...

http://www.mountathosinfos.gr/pages/agionoros/pilgrims_info.en.html

This is also an excellent page:

Extending your stay

It is possible to stay for longer than the four days initially granted most pilgrims. To acquire permission to extend your trip, you will need to go in person to the Administration Office in Karyes. It is simple to make the request, and requests are usually granted — but you may be told to come back to the office and apply on the day your original permit expires. Or you may not: this seems to be an arbitrarily enforced requirement.

http://thessaloniki.pbworks.com/w/page/22156781/Visiting%20Athos

Personally, I think this place is crazy - but well worth a visit... I am sure you will have mad adventures. I was considering going too.. now I am bit older... I think if I go, I will take some Valium I have with me..

[H]

Thanks you very much Faliro! I certainly owe you a giant one. This is something I really been wanting to do for a long while, I'll start studying the subject and everything around it, it's something I must do for the sake of my mind. Σας ευχαριστώ , αδελφέ μου!

[Vitor84]

I was there last year. And I didn't like it at all...
Ok, it was a travel when everything went wrong, and very bad planned. But the people there were very unfriendly, maybe I wasn't lucky in the monasteries that I choose but also in the boat, in the port and in all the way. And you can see a very very conservative church, the monks are stacked on the time. If you are not of the same religion (in my case I'm agnostic but I said that I was catholic to don't be so bad, but my friend that went with me is egyptian orthodox (as he said to me his religion is very similar to the orthodox, he went many times to the greek church cerimonies in the city where we were) but they didn't allowed us to see the church on the monastery and we where completely separate on our room in the monastery like in a prison.
About costs also was bad for me, because the boats were expensive, we need to pay that 30 euros for the permit (and we didn't know that) and all buses that we took since the city where we lived until Ouronopoulis (and we needed to sleep there one night, because we lost one bus and after 13h d more boats to the monasteries)... In general everything went wrong on that travel.