Santos

[Festivus]

Yea, Greek is useless, seriously. The fact it even survived unscathed over 400 years of muslim rule is incredible. Greeks are forced to learn ancient Greek at school and absolutely HATE it mostly and find it pointless. I am amazed you poor portuguese had to learn ancient Greek. It is very intellectual to be made to learn that. In England in the old days, latin and ancient Greek were also required at university. In those days we still believed in the classics, however decades of communist thought have tried to damage our classic roots in Europe as communists don't believe in the ideals of the ancient world - the worship of the hero, the obsession with beauty, classical architecture and numerical logic etc.

I went to school in England - where I was born and raised. I had to study french from 7 years old to 18 years old. I did latin from 11 to 18.

Is it really a bad thing for your native language to be useless? I wish Portuguese didn't have hundred millions of native speakers. It's still a useless language here in Europe anyway.

[H]

Sorry to hijack the thread Faliro, but there's something I would like to ask you, since we're talking about Greek history and culture:

How come there aren't any relevant classical composers from Greece?

I know it's a bit secluded geographicallly speaking, since it's "blocked" by land by several other countries like all the ex-Jugoslavia countries, Romani, Bulgaria and Albania. But Greece is such an ancient and important country in Europe and the West, generally speaking, one would would hope to find some solid names on the classical music sphere, right?

The same way you had Doménikos Theotokópoulos (El Greco) on painting and have Angelopoulos on Film, I was expecting to hear some classically composed music from Greece. Or do people in your country care only about Byzantine Chanting? Nothing wrong with that though, I love it and I have some records that I really like to listen to.

[Faliro]

Sorry to hijack the thread Faliro, but there's something I would like to ask you, since we're talking about Greek history and culture:

How come there aren't any relevant classical composers from Greece?

I know it's a bit secluded geographicallly speaking, since it's "blocked" by land by several other countries like all the ex-Jugoslavia countries, Romani, Bulgaria and Albania. But Greece is such an ancient and important country in Europe and the West, generally speaking, one would would hope to find some solid names on the classical music sphere, right?

The same way you had Doménikos Theotokópoulos (El Greco) on painting and have Angelopoulos on Film, I was expecting to hear some classically composed music from Greece. Or do people in your country care only about Byzantine Chanting? Nothing wrong with that though, I love it and I have some records that I really like to listen to.

Greeks like classical music a lot and many of the state run tv channels would often have Viennese orchestras playing classical music during the day..

It's a good question and it brings up a very dark period in Greek history.

Constaniople's fall in was the final nail on the coffin to the Byzantium Empire. The Empire had been destroyed by the Latins a century before, and most of Constantinople was abandoned decades before by the time the city actually fell to the Ottoman Turks in 1453.

When the Constantinople fell, any Greeks with any money - left or had left before for Venice and Italy. They are now all Italians, and that is one of the reasons 'Greco' is one of the most popular surnames in Italy. Most the poor Greeks converted to Islam not o be taxed so badly and are now modern day Turks. The remaining few, the last remants of Ancient Byzantium and even Ancient Greece, stayed Christian, but were treated poorly. They were taxed hugely for being Christian, their children were harvested and converted to Islamic soldiers (Janissary System) and their land was no longer their own. They were victims and they became bandits, peasants, thieves, merchants and priests over the centuries. This was what was left of the Greek race and the descendants of these peoples are the modern Greeks.

Being under Ottoman rule Greeks never experienced a renaissance. The countless fields of wine across Greece and the former Byzantium Empire were burnt as muslims did not drink and there was no longer a market. Greeks became traders to survive, bureaucrats, even politicians as the ottoman Turks raised their young to become soldiers or military doctors etc. The music was not touched by the west, neither the literature, neither the culture. Greeks managed to keep their religion, language and culture - but enough to survive. Greece (only the Peloponnese!) became free in the 1830's. Much later Greeks would take back their islands and most the mainland from the Turks through much bloodshed. There was not time for the arts, most were just trying to survive their muslim masters and many Greeks who were captured were routinely sold into slavery in the eastern slave markets. There were also many massacres.

El Greco managed to survive as an artist because he lived in an era when Crete was controlled by the Latins, so he was allowed to flourish. Crete however, like many Italian possessions in the Aegean would later become Ottoman, but for that moment when it was Christian, the arts could flourish.

Greeks now are free and there have been many artists and musicians. Perhaps some of the best have been Vangelis (Blade Runner, Chariots of Fire), Mikis Theodorakis (Zorba, Serpico many others - very good composer) and Manos Hadjidakis (Never on a Sunday).

Before the Greeks became free, they dressed in a very unique manner and much of their behaviour was 'unwestern.' Long gone was the Classical or Bzantine dress. When Lord Byron asked to meet a Greek, they were almost all dressed in this version of Ottoman dress, with the hat, bandit weapons, trousers and waistcoats identifing them as 'Rum' meaning 'Roman' in Turkish - the word the Turks used to identify 'Greeks.' Here is Botsaris, a famous Greek revolutionary as an example:



Here is Georgios Karaiskakis (who was killed near Faliro, Piraeus) and the Olympiakos stadium is named in honour of:



There was no time for classical music, they were just trying survive for 400 years..

[H]

Thanks for the great answer Faliro!

[Faliro]

Santos returned to Portugal and left the greek national team to return alone. He had stated he would return to portugal even if greece made the 1/4s!

He also made some statements in portugal today about the greek team, does anyone have them? I heard they were quite sharp.

[JPSilva]

Santos returned to Portugal and left the greek national team to return alone. He had stated he would return to portugal even if greece made the 1/4s!

He also made some statements in portugal today about the greek team, does anyone have them? I heard they were quite sharp.

He said that "two or three" players were trying to score the goal of their lives instead of helping the team. That's what I heard.

[Faliro]

Very honest of him. Those players were clearly karagounis, Lazaros etc..

[Faliro]

EPO treated Santos like crap. His contract expired the night of the last 16 game and the epo got him tickets to leave to portugal after the game!!!! He said it was inappropriate and he was right. Another disgrace by the EPO...

http://www.topontiki.gr/article/78110/Tonefugan-apo-to-mesimeri-Pos-na-min-trelathei-o-Santos

[JPSilva]

EPO treated Santos like crap. His contract expired the night of the last 16 game and the epo got him tickets to leave to portugal after the game!!!! He said it was inappropriate and he was right. Another disgrace by the EPO...

http://www.topontiki.gr/article/78110/Tonefugan-apo-to-mesimeri-Pos-na-min-trelathei-o-Santos

Well that's inappropriate to say the least. I wouldn't expect that from the Greek federation. And why did the contract expire before the end of the World Cup?

[Faliro]

Probably didnt want to go further... EPO is very Katsouranis/Karagounis friendly and they probably thought, whoever is in charge, they wont be able to pull those two past the last round of 16.

[avc10]

Santos said today on a tv show something like "to this player's no one can question is passion. I don't known anyone with the passion of this player's. If i have to give a note 0 to 10 i give them 11..." and a lot more praises to greek player's.

That is no news for anyone, still stays the compliment.

[Faliro]

I think Santos likes Greece. He said he misses it whenever he is away.

I am sure he will return one day.

He had a successful tenure as coach and I think, with how many Portuguese have coached in Greece, more portuguese will come..

PAO
Jesualdo Ferreira
Jose Peseiro
Fernando Santos

PAOK
Fernando Santos

OSFP
Leonardo Jardim

AEK
Fernando Santos

OFI
Ricardo Sá Pinto

Aris:
Severiano Correia
Manuel Machado

Asteras
Carlos Carvalhal
Horácio Gonçalves

Ionikos:
Inacio Augusto Soares

[Godescalco]

Out of all of those coaches, only Leonardo Jardim, Fernando Santos and José Peseiro are any good.

Inácio, Sá Pinto, Jesualdo, etc., are all crap.

[josantiago]

Seeing that list, I would have liked to see Manuel Machado explaining his points of view in english ou greek in the press conferences

[jgilcruz]

Well, he's ours now.