Hellas futebol

[Red.Fever]

well, big stadiums are nice but if the attendance is bad... better smaller stadiums I guess
maybe that's why they don't do them too big there

how is it in Greece, even for the big clubs?

here we have some stadiums with good ammount of seats but for the most part the attendance sucks.
even Porto (50k stadium) and Sporting (45k I think) it's very rare they fill the stadium (for the most part it's only full when they play against us)... they have around 30k average, some times even less.
Benfica is the club with best attendance, with an average of 40/45k... but we actually put 50/55/60k quite often.

so for Benfica those 30/35k stadiums would be small, but for the rest here they'd be more than fine.

[Faliro]

Attendance in Greece is poor - for a few reasons.

1/ Expensive tickets, even for teams who play in stadiums that would embarrass Syria..

2/ Hooliganism. Most families avoid games the last 10 years.

3/ Poor quality stadiums - people would rather just watch on TV without getting your face burnt off by a flare..

Olympiakos attendance is low - probably about 20k per game - full 32,000 on a big derby or any European game. Amazing to think AEK has the biggest attendance atm (sold the most season tickets and they were in league 3 this season). PAO seem to be better since they returned to their rat-hole Leoforo this season. Their hardcore support looked lost in the massive OAKA.

[Red.Fever]

yeah, you guys seem to have more reasons there that keeps the people away from the stadiums, which is not good for the "show" :/

here the big 3 attendances are not great, but not too bad... who suffers the most are the smaller clubs.
small country where most support one of the big 3

[Faliro]

Interesting.. 

PAOK received -3 points directly from the playoffs and -3 points for the start of next season for their crowd troubles.

Now the crowd problems in leoforos last week were far more serious...remember?







Punishment? 2 games behind closed doors and a fine. No points deductions!  That is what you call corruption. That is basically a free ticket for PAO to get CL football next season at PAOK's expense. Because PAO 'avoided' a point deduction.. it is now:

PAO  7
PAOK 4
Asteras Tripoli 4
Atromitos 3

[Godescalco]

Greece has an interesting potential as a footballing country. I've always thought so. Natural talent, passion for the game, historical clubs, etc.

But something serious should be done about Greek football overall. The situation is decaying.

[Red.Fever]

Interesting.. 

PAOK received -3 points directly from the playoffs and -3 points for the start of next season for their crowd troubles.

Now the crowd problems in leoforos last week were far more serious...remember?



Punishment? 2 games behind closed doors and a fine. No points deductions!  That is what you call corruption. That is basically a free ticket for PAO to get CL football next season at PAOK's expense. Because PAO 'avoided' a point deduction.. it is now:

PAO  7
PAOK 4
Asteras Tripoli 4
Atromitos 3

weird as fuck
if the others got points deduction this one should have it too 

what does the press and the teams that got points removed say there about this???

[Faliro]

The 'red' media takes it as just another example of PAO corruption and match fixing. We are laughing about it.

All the other media are as quiet as the grave because they are mostly PAO. AEK media seems a little confused and PAOK.. shocked...What can they say? The owner of PAOK and PAO have been cuddling the last 2 games and sitting together before and during the games to show how much they hate Olympiakos.. you could not make it up...









After the troubles at leoforos their relationship became visibly more tense..



Alafouzos is a piece of shit.. seriously.. and Savvidis, the PAOK owner just proved how stupid he is once again.

[Red.Fever]

it doesn't surprise me you guys are shocked and talk about corruption, the rules/punishment should be equal for everyone
and the fact the owners of PAO and PAOK are so close makes it even worse 

[Festivus]

 This current relationship between PAOK and PAO sounds like Porto/Sporting relationship a few years ago. As long as Benfica didn't win anything, Sporting fans and the board would be happy.

[Faliro]

It is exactly that ^^

If you want to join the fraternity of corruption, as a club owner, you have to state how bad Olympiakos is and get close to Alafouzos. Melissanidis (AEK) did it as soon as he purchased AEK - said 'things are going to change concerning Olympiakos'  Savvidis recently (he had kept quiet since he bought PAOK a few years ago) got close to Alafouzos against Olympiakos publically. Seems it cost him a CL place for PAOK.. 

The owner of Apollon Smyrnis and Patras both threatened to quit Greek footaball this season, the Apollon one did, the Patras one said he would remove Patras from the second league.., he is a Lawyer like Alafouzos and just tries to damage Olympiakos as much as he can.

How PAO avoided -3 points is the biggest joke in Greek football. As an Olympiakos fan, we just ignore their games and concentrate on playing attacking football. We have the best stadium, the best training facilities, the most expensive squad and the most fans. We just laugh at them.

[Festivus]

 Btw, I really like that project for AEK's future stadium.

[Faliro]

Yea, the project is in parliament and it will be voted on the 17th. If it passes, construction can start that week.

It will be a sensational stadium. Each gate will be named after an ancient city of Greece and Western Turkey before the fall of Constantinople. One gate will be names after Sparta.

Inside there will be museums, spas, cafes, elite boxes, simply a sensational construction and it will lift Greek football hugely. Athens will be in constant football civil war which will be great for development of the sport. If it is not built, there will be more misery.

As an Olympiakos fan I want it built so we have more competition at home. 

[Festivus]

I'm glad that Greece and the Greeks don't forget their rich past and history.

You seem to have a considerable amount of respect for AEK. Is that a general feeling of Olympiakos fans? And what do AEK fans feel about Olympiakos, generally? Obviously their biggest rival is PAO, but they also view you guys as a rival as well, right? And I'm guessing there's not a rivalry between Piraeus and Athens like there is between Salonika and Athens...

[Faliro]

Very good question and most Greeks wont answer you honestly sadly.

The truth is most Greeks who live in Athens or Salonika have roots from Turkey, it is hard to find an Athenian who does not have a relative who is a descendant of a Greek refugee from Turkey. In the countryside it is a different story..most have lived in the same place for 1000s of years, like the islands..and the south of Greece..

So nearly everyone in Athens has a relative who is AEK. My whole Greek family that remains in Greece is AEK. The refugees came with nothing, just the clothes on their backs in most cases and built the AEK stadium with their own hands. Their club was designed to keep alive memories of their ancestral homeland in Ottoman Turkey. Their colours, yellow and black are the colours of Byzantium and their symbol is the crest of the Byzantium/Constantinople. Most Greeks will have sympathy for them and their huge passion and soul. They lost everything in Turkey but tried to preserve their culture - one that was not interrupted since the fall of Troy..if that really happened..

As an Olympiakos fan we hate PAO the most. They were the original 'aristocratic' club of Athens founded in 1908 and Olympiakos, who were founded after the great catastrophe of 1922, were the poor from Piraeus - the dock workers, sailors, ship builders and refugees from Turkey. That hatred between the two clubs has never died.

AEK and PAO never cared about each other. Of course they would try and kill each other whenever they came in contact - especially when they had to share the OAKA (was hilarious - really.. Original 21 would simply set fire to anything PAO - including shops, mopeds etc), but the real hatred was never there - only hooliganism, just as Olympiakos never cared what PAOK or AEK had to say. PAOK were never dominant in Greece so we never cared - same with Aris.

As for myself, I started watching AEK in the 90's when I started to fall in love with football. They had a great team - very fast, and great fans - no one could really win there, including Real Madrid... Also my favorite Greek player played there, Tsiartas. Even their shirts were cool in those days..





So I must admit to have a soft spot for AEK and when they return, Greek football will be so much more alive and entertaining again. Also, seeing them win or lose in Europe is always fun too.

Interesting, concerning fan cultures, PAOK hate every one in Greece. They will destroy anyone's stadium, they simply feel it is them against the world..

Side note, original 21, AEK's extreme fans hate every club in Greece and destroy/ smash every stadium they visit.

[Festivus]

 It's pretty pathetic when someone's happiness is based on the failure of others. That's why many of us couldn't respect Sporting for years.

Pretty good post about Greek football and history, Faliro. Strange that there's not much rivalry between AEK and PAO considering they're the two best teams from Athens.

Man, PAOK sound like the Greek Vitória de Guimarães. They bear the same colours even!

Why wouldn't most Greeks answer my question honestly? Is the subject a taboo or something?