International politics

[Jotenko]

Faliro, there are reports about people running to the supermarkets and gas stations, in Greece.

It seems pretty calm in Greece. I mean Greece has Turkish military jets violating its airspace daily, communists smashing banks and capitalist symbols..over a million illegals scattered across the cities sleeping rough.. Greece is generally quite lawless. So to be honest, I don't think Greeks will panic. Even when the Junta took over in the 1960s, everyone just went to work normally the next day.

Tell us honestly, what do you think is Tsipra's strategy here?

- Hoping for the 'yes' to win to get out of the situation on top of his game, as the man who faced troika?
- Genuiningely wanting 'no' to win so he can get out of the Euro and starting a recovery with Dracma?
- Trying to make a desperate 'bluff' to reach an agreement before weekend?

[Faliro]

Faliro, there are reports about people running to the supermarkets and gas stations, in Greece.

It seems pretty calm in Greece. I mean Greece has Turkish military jets violating its airspace daily, communists smashing banks and capitalist symbols..over a million illegals scattered across the cities sleeping rough.. Greece is generally quite lawless. So to be honest, I don't think Greeks will panic. Even when the Junta took over in the 1960s, everyone just went to work normally the next day.

Tell us honestly, what do you think is Tsipra's strategy here?

- Hoping for the 'yes' to win to get out of the situation on top of his game, as the man who faced troika?
- Genuiningely wanting 'no' to win so he can get out of the Euro and starting a recovery with Dracma?
- Trying to make a desperate 'bluff' to reach an agreement before weekend?

Tsipras wants a no vote, I think that is pretty clear at this stage. He is actively telling the Greek people to vote no.

However, as you spotted quite cleverly, there is a long week ahead before the vote and much can happen - for or against Tsipras. I have seen this a poker game from day one. At this point Tsipras has put down around 75% of his chips just after the flop. It is a complicated strategy and Tsipras is not easy to read as he is a champagne socialist and no one really knows how stupid or clever he is. You should not look at this as a case of Drachma or Euro, Tsipras, Varoufakis and friends are all wealthy and selfish, whatever system or currency - they will still be rich when it is all over and they know that. What is frightening is the EU - and all its members, are starting to realise this.

Greeks are famous for one thing - destroying empires they are ruled by. Persian, Venetian, Ottoman - Greeks make very poor citizens of someone else's empire and usually bring it down from the inside. They are specialists. The EU is learning this. The moment some Europeans decided to give Greece a veto, the euro, the protection of EU courts - it was game over. Greeks new exactly the power they were being given. Other countries were thinking of what they had to gain from EU membership - Greece was thinking what it could leverage.

[ppfinder]

SOCIALISM:

You have 2 cows.
The State takes one and gives it to your neighbour.

COMMUNISM:

You have 2 cows.
The State takes both and gives you some milk.

FASCISM:

You have 2 cows.
The State takes both and sells you some milk.

BUREAUCRACY:

You have 2 cows.
The State takes both, shoots one, milks the other and throws the milk away.

CAPITALISM:

You have two cows.
You sell one and buy a bull.
Your herd multiplies.
You sell them and retire on the income.

AND THEN THERE'S THE GREEK SYSTEM:

You have two cows borrowed from the French and Germans.
You eat both of them.
The French & Germans call to collect their milk, but you cannot deliver so you call the IMF.
The IMF loans you two cows.
You eat both of them.
The French, Germans and the IMF call to collect their cows/milk.
You decide to call a referendum.

CAPITALISM:

You have two cows.
You sell one and buy a bull.
Your herd multiplies.
You sell them and retire on the income.


There so many scenarios missing here .... for example:
You sell them and when you're are called to pay income taxes, you moved to an offshore and retire.

[Jotenko]

Faliro, there are reports about people running to the supermarkets and gas stations, in Greece.

It seems pretty calm in Greece. I mean Greece has Turkish military jets violating its airspace daily, communists smashing banks and capitalist symbols..over a million illegals scattered across the cities sleeping rough.. Greece is generally quite lawless. So to be honest, I don't think Greeks will panic. Even when the Junta took over in the 1960s, everyone just went to work normally the next day.

Tell us honestly, what do you think is Tsipra's strategy here?

- Hoping for the 'yes' to win to get out of the situation on top of his game, as the man who faced troika?
- Genuiningely wanting 'no' to win so he can get out of the Euro and starting a recovery with Dracma?
- Trying to make a desperate 'bluff' to reach an agreement before weekend?

Tsipras wants a no vote, I think that is pretty clear at this stage. He is actively telling the Greek people to vote no.

However, as you spotted quite cleverly, there is a long week ahead before the vote and much can happen - for or against Tsipras. I have seen this a poker game from day one. At this point Tsipras has put down around 75% of his chips just after the flop. It is a complicated strategy and Tsipras is not easy to read as he is a champagne socialist and no one really knows how stupid or clever he is. You should not look at this as a case of Drachma or Euro, Tsipras, Varoufakis and friends are all wealthy and selfish, whatever system or currency - they will still be rich when it is all over and they know that. What is frightening is the EU - and all its members, are starting to realise this.

Greeks are famous for one thing - destroying empires they are ruled by. Persian, Venetian, Ottoman - Greeks make very poor citizens of someone else's empire and usually bring it down from the inside. They are specialists. The EU is learning this. The moment some Europeans decided to give Greece a veto, the euro, the protection of EU courts - it was game over. Greeks new exactly the power they were being given. Other countries were thinking of what they had to gain from EU membership - Greece was thinking what it could leverage.

Well I think it is game over for Greece now.

[Festivus]

I honestly would not be surprised if a sudden "plot twist"came out of nowhere and both parties(EU and Greece) came to an agreement. That being said, I'd not be shocked i Greece left the Euro either.

I don't think Greece has much to win either way. I mean, if the country leaves the Euro and goes back to its former currency, how are they gonna support themselves? Gonna be financially aided by Russia? That wouldn't change much for Greece since it'd be economically dependent on another country. It'd just be a switch of faction.

What I truly fear about this is possible economical side-effects for Portugal. Then again, I'm no economist, so I really don't know anything about the subject matter and don't really know what to think about it. But the future doesn't look very bright, I'm afraid.

[Jotenko]

I honestly would not be surprised if a sudden "plot twist"came out of nowhere and both parties(EU and Greece) came to an agreement. That being said, I'd not be shocked i Greece left the Euro either.

I don't think Greece has much to win either way. I mean, if the country leaves the Euro and goes back to its former currency, how are they gonna support themselves? Gonna be financially aided by Russia? That wouldn't change much for Greece since it'd be economically dependent on another country. It'd just be a switch of faction.

What I truly fear about this is possible economical side-effects for Portugal. Then again, I'm no economist, so I really don't know anything about the subject matter and don't really know what to think about it. But the future doesn't look very bright, I'm afraid.

LOL. Seems like that's exactly what's happening.

[Faliro]

The first Greek referendum since 1974..

[Jotenko]

The first Greek referendum since 1974..

I am getting really REALLY confused about all this.

So the government said 'yes', but they still ask people to vote 'no'.

What... who? Why?

[Faliro]

Would be nice to have all my friends in this forum, over to Greece. We could all be in a bar in Glyfada, laughing about all. Would be so much fun. 

You Portuguese - you are alright.

[Jotenko]

Would be nice to have all my friends in this forum, over to Greece. We could all be in a bar in Glyfada, laughing about all. Would be so much fun. 

You Portuguese - you are alright.

Let's do it!

[Jotenko]

"NO" ahead!

[Faliro]

The EU's main goal once it stupidly decided to take on greek debt, should have been to force reforms on Greece to kick start its economy to get its money back long term. Not take what it could short term through austerity - all that did was further reduce Greece's economy by 25%.

[Jotenko]

OMG THE WAITING IS HORRENDOUS AND ANNOYING.

[Faliro]

[Jotenko]

Nothing is happening.