Hellas futebol

[Faliro]

Yes, since I have been posting here, I noticed a dislike for Sporting and now I understand why and I know the feeling, trust me, I hate teams like this..

Please don't get me wrong, if an AEK fan (Original 21) sees Vazelos (what we call PAO fans - literally Vaseline..because we always slide in easy...), there is always violence.. you just never sense the extreme hatred that you get between PAO and Olympiakos. Original 21 will smash and burn anyone's fans/ stadia.. they are professional hooligans..but you always feel PAO will go out their way to kill olympiakos fans and vice versa.. many fans have been murdered between Olympiakos and PAO in bars and suburbs.. even when they meet on holiday in places like Crete.. Because Olympiakos is the undisputed best club of Greece most clubs focus their hatred on us. 

As for PAOK, they are like pirates.. where ever they go.. problems..violence and madness. Their games against Fener a few years ago were epic... nothing like seeing Greeks get off the coach in Istanbul to beat up Turks in a city that was once our capital for 800 years.. they are fearless.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JCker4-O7M

starts at 4 minutes:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aM09Iu_ddx0

Greeks will not be honest with you because most Greek fans are fanatics. ''Olympiakos is the best, fuck PAO, PAOK, AEK etc...'' But the reality is far more complex like in all football countries. For example some clubs seem to develop mutual respects somehow after tears.. an example is whenever Olympiakos play in Crete, we never have any fan trouble these days - seems OFI and Ergotelis are more relaxed about us and since then we can loan them players and become more civilised. In contrast, the moment any Olympiakos fan steps foot in Salonika, there is serious serious problems.

[Festivus]

 Yeah, we're the main target here as well. Everyone wants to beat us.

I know this thread is about Greek football, but since this is a Benfica and Portuguese forum, allow me to tell you more about Sporting's and Porto's fans and their relationship with us.

You see, Sporting have been our main rival from day one, pretty much. Both teams being from the same city and the grounds they've played at never being very far from the rival's. Nobody(at least in the center/northern regions of the country) gave much of a damn about Porto until the 80s or so, when they started growing and their criminal President got in power. But the thing is, while Porto and Sporting fans hate us the most alike, we're pretty divided. Some Benfiquistas hate Sporting more than Porto and the opposite happens as well. Many of us just hate both equally.

The thing is, Porto is a cheating scum of a club. Every time Benfica plays at their stadium, our fans get treated like garbage. Wearing Benfica apparel in Oporto can be fairly dangerous, while a Porto fan wearing his team's apparel here in Lisboa can do it without anyone batting an eye. Sporting, however, is not a cheating scum of a club. It just happens to be our rival. Now, when it comes to fans, it's hard to say which club's I dislike the most. I'm from Lisboa, therefore I do not know many Porto fans, I must say. I do, however know many Sporting fans, and my university has plenty of them. In fact, in my course, I'd say that about 60-70 percent of the students that like football are Sporting fans. My uni is pretty close to Sporting's stadium(you can see it from plenty of classrooms and from the uni's library, even), but I doubt that has any influence since students at universities come fro mall over the country. Anyway, Sporting fans have a huge inferiority complex with Benfica. They NEVER give us credit when we win. And they seem to be lost in their own little world/reality where they are the best team in the world and a huge club in Europe. The thing is, Sporting have always sucked at Europe, and they only have a Cup Winner's Cup in their trophy case. The fact that they think they can stand up to us, who have way more Championships and 2 European Cups in our trophy case is, quite frankly, laughable. Plus, Sporting fans have an elitist attitude. They consider themselves intellectually superior to us. To them, we're all a bunch of drunk rednecks who beat up our wives. Well, to me, Sporting fans are nothing but a bunch of pseudo-intellectuals. And for someone who claims to be so classy and cultured, they sure showed it by joking and being overjoyed over Eusébio's death back in January.

Now, as for Porto fans, they're pretty arrogant and also hate us a lot. They don't care much about Sporting. They just view them as a bunch of cry babies, like we do. They don't really take them seriously. Porto fans, like Sporting fans, view us as the main rival/enemy. But the thing is, when Porto fails, they don't latch onto Sporting like Sporting do to them. When Porto is doing badly, they'll just curse themselves and talk shit about us, but that's it. They try to focus on their mistakes and try to figure out what went wrong so they can strike back in the following season. Sporting fans, however, their main goal is finishing ahead of us. Last season they finished 7th(their worst season ever) and yet cared more about celebrating our terrible end of a season than sulking over their pathetic one. They've even celebrated Porto's victory against us as if Sporting had won a title or something like that. Benfica fans would NEVER do something as pathetic as this. When Sporting and Porto faced each other in the Portuguese Cup final back in 2007/2008, I didn't give a damn about the game. Benfica had finished 4th, so I was kinda depressed over it.

So basically: Porto is the big bully, while Sporting is that short cowardly kid who hangs out/hides behind the big bullies.

[Faliro]

I never knew this about sporting fans. They really sound like a bunch cry babies. Similar to the Vazelos. I am always amazed at how pathetic fans can be. I remember years ago when teams would come to play us in Europe, some Vazelos would greet them at the airport and wish them luck in the game - even giving them flags and memorabilia to display at our stadium....

Sporting seem truely pathetic and I am sure they would be in heaven having a night in at home with some Vazelos. some wine and talking about us to get hot. Football cultures can be very ugly.

Olympiakos is very similar to benfica in a few points. Firstly, every other team wants us to lose, even to other teams??    We are both the biggest teams in our country. We both wear red.

You made me laugh about the psuedo intellectualism.. AEK will tick that box.. Just as I can spot a PAO fan, within 1 minute of meeting him (they have a personality that cries about everything) - I can spot an AEK fan even more easily. 99% of them are leftists..psuedo communists and most think that they are intellectual and truely understand football 

I am amazed how similar Portugal is in football cultures. It seems that certain personalities always seem to do to certain clubs..

When I lived in Brazil, I lived in a city called Belo Horizonte. I spoke a lot about football. Everyone is either Cruzeiro or Atletico..Club America is sually in the second division and no one really cares. What amazed me was that Cruzeiro are widely supported by people who don't understand football. They are arrogant and simple. Atletico fans seem to analyse every single game, they seem to take every loss personally and everything for them is emotional. Cruzeiro reminded me a lot of the descriptions on here of Porto. Atletico seemed more like Benfica... much loved and respected.

[Festivus]

 And I can tell you a lot more, man. Porto have taken João Moutinho(their captain) and Izmailov away from Sporting and they didn't care much. We took Yannick Djaló, a shitty player away from them, and they went apeshit over it. The thing is, Sporting was the club that has suffered more with Porto's success, not us. They've only won like 4 championships in 40 years or so. And Porto might surpass Sporting in terms of support soon, if they have not already. You'd be surprised how most Sporting fans, in a conversation about football, will blindly side with Porto fans when the subject is Benfica. Hell, Sporting celebrate their biggest win over us, 7-1, to this day. They hold a commemorative dinner ever year even! They might as well consider it a trophy. And that season, we won the championship, so that win of theirs over us was pretty much useless.

Yeah, and Benfica and Olympiakos both bear the same colours, as do Sporting and PAO haha.

That bit of PAO fans welcoming your opponents at the airport reminds me of Porto fans welcoming Lazio's team at the airport before our CL qualifying round against them back in 2003/2004.

From my experience, Porto fans are more knowledgeable about football than Sporting fans. Sporting fans would rather sell their own families for money than admitting that Benfica were fair winners or that we have good players.

Yeah, I usually can tell a Sporting fan when I meet one as well. Dunno what it is, but something about their aura and their faces just screams "I'm a Sportinguista". 

Politics are kinda irrelevant here when it comes to football. Originally, Sporting fans came from a more upper middle class background, and Benfica fans from a working class one, but that has changed a lot over the years. Most of the time, people will just support the club of their own parents./family. I've met fans of both clubs of every social group/class. Although, Sporting seems to have a higher amount of uppder mid-class fans. When I was a kid, I went to a school in Alvalade, which is near Sporting's stadium. There were still many Benfica fans, and I honestly don't know if we weren't more than them. Anyway, in that area there's a big clash of social class/groups. I had as many classmates from upper mid class/rich families as from middle/lower mid-class families. It wasn't an indicator of anything, but the preppy ones that came from richer families tended to be Sporting fans.

[Faliro]

And I can tell you a lot more, man. Porto have taken João Moutinho(their captain) and Izmailov away from Sporting and they didn't care much. We took Yannick Djaló, a shitty player away from them, and they went apeshit over it.

So typical. Reminds me of something so funny. We bought a player called Rafic Djebbour from AEK - they could not afford him and had massive financial problems. As soon as he came to us he blossomed and scored non stop. Of course the AEK fans branded him a traitor.. Us Olympiakos fans simply pointed out, players tend to try harder when they are actually paid the wages owed to them..rather than waiting 2 years for a bits and pieces of wages with the help of a team of lawyers..


Hell, Sporting celebrate their biggest win over us, 7-1, to this day. They hold a commemorative dinner ever year even! They might as well consider it a trophy.

Hahahahahaha.. That is gold. The best one I can compete with that is the owner of Panathianikos, 'Tzigger' handing out free DVDs to Vazelos before a game of supposed games where we had cheated - just to continue the myth that we win unfairly...


From my experience, Porto fans are more knowledgeable about football than Sporting fans. Sporting fans would rather sell their own families for money than admitting that Benfica were fair winners or that we have good players.

When my cousins found out I supported Olympiakos, they stopped talking to me. Hating Olympiakos is a national sport. Vazelos, after an Olympiakos game, analyse every single play trying to spot cheating. They don't even care about their games..Only ours. They go to work producing images to 'prove' their findings.. however they have done this so much that now everyone just posts sarcastic diagrams in response:








Yeah, I usually can tell a Sporting fan when I meet one as well. Dunno what it is, but something about their aura and their faces just screams "I'm a Sportinguista". 

It is the aura!! I am always amazed how I can spot opposing fans. Also I look for weakness in the eyes to spot Vazelos.



Politics are kinda irrelevant here when it comes to football. Originally, Sporting fans came from a more upper middle class background, and Benfica fans from a working class one, but that has changed a lot over the years. Most of the time, people will just support the club of their own parents./family. I've met fans of both clubs of every social group/class. Although, Sporting seems to have a higher amount of uppder mid-class fans. When I was a kid, I went to a school in Alvalade, which is near Sporting's stadium. There were still many Benfica fans, and I honestly don't know if we weren't more than them. Anyway, in that area there's a big clash of social class/groups. I had as many classmates from upper mid class/rich families as from middle/lower mid-class families. It wasn't an indicator of anything, but the preppy ones that came from richer families tended to be Sporting fans.


What I find interesting is almost any anarchist in Greece supports AEK. What is interesting about that is AEK's emblem is the emblem of a right wing religious empire - the Holy Second Roman Empire to be precise. Even their stupid magazine is called EMPIRE..just seems weird behaviour for those trying to 'fight' the system..

[Festivus]

 You know what else is funny? Porto's been linked to corruption scandals more than any other team here, and yet they label us "the corrupts". Sporting fans at least know that Porto is corrupt... but they also think that we're as bad as them. And if they know that Porto is worse, they'll still hate us more even if that ends up hurting them more than it helps them.

As for the player thing, Djaló was a stupid signing by us. He sucked at Sporting and sucked here as well. Now he's at the USA living the high life.

Porto's president once put something in the away visitor locker room that stunk the whole place up, thus forcing us to dress in the corridor. He even told Eriksson(our coach back then) "War is war!".

Sporting's current president claimed that the country's issues could be easily solved if red was taken away from the flag. Seriously

[Faliro]

OK, that is ridiculous. I would have never believed this of Portugal - it seems so civilised compared to Greece when I watch games from there. I suppose money makes people do ridiculous things.

What I hate, is certain fans in Greece - most fans in Greece will never admit their team lost because they were shit. It is always the ref's fault. I have never witnessed a Greek admit they lost fair and square in Greece. In European games it is another matter. Domestically - no team in the history of hellenic football has lost a game because they were worse than the other team.

AEK used to make me laugh. They would blame the ref, of course.. But the next day, they would all be at the AEK training ground and would beat up - yes physically attack - the players they secretly believed played shit. When they can't get to the players, they would smash their cars...

[Festivus]

 Oh, don't get me wrong. We love to blame the refs here as well, even if they had no influence in the outcome of the match.

As for us being civilized, well the thing is, our fans and ultras are not as crazy and violent as the ones from other countries. Portuguese people are generally calm and peaceful folk that avoid conflict. We love to criticize and talk shit about others, but when it comes to actually do something we just say "fuck it!". We're also kinda pesky and envious of others' success. And we lack a bit of national self-esteem. We talk badly about our country all the time, and always comparing us with other countries, making them look superior to ours.

[Faliro]

OK so now we are at the crux.

Undoubtedly, Portugal is a superior footballing nation to Greece. It also has better infrastructure, stadiums and reputation. The people seem quite similar also. Greeks always bad mouth their own country - the old joke told by Greeks is that 'Greece is the only white African country in the world..' 'when you put a greek in a suit, he looks like a monkey in a suit.'

I think the football difference is, Greece has professional armies of fans. These people live and breath their club - many are also professional hooligans. Jobs/family/religion all come second to their football team. Maybe in the past they would have been in an actual army or something. They buzz around on their mopeds, looking for fights, watching the basketball department, football department or even water polo section of their teams, each day there is always something to watch or someone to attack. They control certain bars - they always have friends to chat shit with.. I question if many of them even have jobs. Their tattoos... it is even quite common to have a tattoo of you favorite player..

[Festivus]

 Attendance is only high here when a team is on the high. And yes, this applies to the big 3 as well. Most of the smaller clubs barely have fans. There's a few exceptions(Vitória de Guimarães, Vitória de Setúbal, Boavista, Leixões, etc).

As for other sports, football is the only one who gets decent support and mainstream coverage here.

[Faliro]

Attendance is only high here when a team is on the high. And yes, this applies to the big 3 as well. Most of the smaller clubs barely have fans. There's a few exceptions(Vitória de Guimarães, Vitória de Setúbal, Boavista, Leixões, etc).

As for other sports, football is the only one who gets decent support and mainstream coverage here.

Basketball is well attended in Greece as is water polo.

The smaller teams sometimes can barely muster 3000 fans. I remember in 2005 a team called Akratitos was in the top league. No one wanted them there as they had no fans..
During that season they also achieved the lowest attendance ever in then 'Alpha Ethniki', with only 26 spectators watching their home game against Skoda Xanthi.

Also are Vitoria fans the most crazy in Portugal?

[Festivus]

Attendance is only high here when a team is on the high. And yes, this applies to the big 3 as well. Most of the smaller clubs barely have fans. There's a few exceptions(Vitória de Guimarães, Vitória de Setúbal, Boavista, Leixões, etc).

As for other sports, football is the only one who gets decent support and mainstream coverage here.

Basketball is well attended in Greece as is water polo.

The smaller teams sometimes can barely muster 3000 fans. I remember in 2005 a team called Akratitos was in the top league. No one wanted them there as they had no fans..
During that season they also achieved the lowest attendance ever in then 'Alpha Ethniki', with only 26 spectators watching their home game against Skoda Xanthi.

Also are Vitoria fans the most crazy in Portugal?

Well, the thing is, plenty of people that support small clubs in Portugal also support one of the big 3. Guimarães fans seem to be the biggest exception, though. Pretty much everyone in the city supports the local club and most of its fans don't support any other team. Their stadium always has good attendance. And someone who supports another team is almost viewed like a traitor there.

Benfica and Porto fans tend to be victims of violence when their teams play at Guimarães' stadium. Also Guimarães' fans stir up shit with foreign team fans often.

[Faliro]

Interesting link on the biggest sports media site in Greece, asks the fans and allows them to vote on what players they want selected:

http://www.sport24.gr/football/ellada/ethniki_elladas/epilekste_thn_ethnikh_toy_moyntial.2780912.html

Its quite sorry bunch of players - injury ridden - old players, out form and tired. Katsouranis is getting his ass handed to him in the vote.. 

We will probably field this in Brazil and get humiliated especially by the faster sides like japan:

.................................Karnesis (Granada)....................................

Torosidis (Roma)....Manolas (OSFP)...Sokratis (Dortmund)....Xolebas (OSFP)

....................Tziolis (???).......Maniatis (OSFP).......Katsou (PAOK)

Salpi (PAOK).......................Mitroglou (Fulham)................Samaras (Celtic)



If it was up to me?

..................................Karnesis (Granada)....................................

Torosidis (Roma)....Manolas (OSFP)...Siovas (OSFP)....Tzavellas(PAOK)

....................Ninis(Parma).......Samaris (OSFP).......Petsos(Rapid)

Fetfatzidis(Genoa).......................Mitroglou (Fulham)................Xolebas(OSFP)

[Covenant]

The young defender of Schalke don't play?

[PsychoFan]

Papadopoulos