International politics

[Faliro]

GD are different in some respects. For example, GD unlike PASOK, SYRIZA and ND believe in Greek borders - meaning they want to deport the 1 million illegal immigrants and not allow Turkey to violate Greece's borders. However they have all been put in jail now so we are unlikely to hear much from them.

Also the party in collation ANEL is another hybrid.

Greece lacks a genuine right wing capitalist party.

[St_John Chrysostom]

GD are different in some respects. For example, GD unlike PASOK, SYRIZA and ND believe in Greek borders - meaning they want to deport the 1 million illegal immigrants and not allow Turkey to violate Greece's borders. However they have all been put in jail now so we are unlikely to hear much from them.

Also the party in collation ANEL is another hybrid.

Greece lacks a genuine right wing capitalist party.

Wasn't Michaloliakos free from jail along with his party members?

It must be hard to have no real alternatives for your country.

[Faliro]

GD are different in some respects. For example, GD unlike PASOK, SYRIZA and ND believe in Greek borders - meaning they want to deport the 1 million illegal immigrants and not allow Turkey to violate Greece's borders. However they have all been put in jail now so we are unlikely to hear much from them.

Also the party in collation ANEL is another hybrid.

Greece lacks a genuine right wing capitalist party.

Wasn't Michaloliakos free from jail along with his party members?

It must be hard to have no real alternatives for your country.

Yes, I think most of them are released this summer but I am not sure they are allowed in parliament as their trial will start soon.

There are no real alternatives. Most Greeks who believe in capitalism and logic emigrated and moved to the USA, Germany, UK, France, Sweden, Canada, Australia etc. The parties left in Greece, represent the Greeks there. Clientelism, closed professions, public sector, unions etc etc.

[Jotenko]

Faliro, comments on the agreement reached?

[Faliro]

A deal 10 times worse than the one on the table before the referendum and around 20 times worse than the deal Samaras was brokering before he called elections and let SYRIZA in last Xmas.  Tsipras proved that champagne socialists make poor negotiators.

Just thank goodness my Granddad left Greece in the 1940s. Greece has not changed.

[Cenotaph]

The way it is transpiring now, for me at least, is that Tsipras really is in way over his head, definitely not prepared to handle this type of negotiation and the whole referendum mess just seems even more ridiculous now than it seemed two weeks ago... Not to mention the past 5 months as prime minister.

Varoufakis, otoh, is completely mental. He would see greeks and Greece burnt to the ground just to prove his point. Guys like him are very dangerous, they live with all the privileges in the world but somehow think they are at a position to speak for the poor and unadvantaged. Revolutionary types that don't live with the consequences of their actions... not good.

Unfortunately, it just gets harder and harder to see Greece leave this situation anytime soon.

[Jotenko]

There will come a time when we will take the hands of the portfolios and will put in consciousness. There will come a time when you no longer will see the rich who have stolen but the poor who stayed. Where there will want compensation but repair. Where we realize that not even calls for solidarity, but pity. Where neither sadists have fun with the degrading spectacle of Greek politicians. The EU has gone too far in sterile and vengeful violence. To destroy the Syriza is to reap up a people. It is no outrage, is pleading: SOS Greece. And if all else fails, appeal to the intelligence, which is not left nor right, as we need to change that plan, and horrible, is dumb, it's bad, it's worse for everyone.

In Brussels palaces, the couches of Berlin or even in the garden benches Lisbon remains desirable apportioning blame and measure the ideological debate. But on the streets of Athens already we spent this stage. Sobra despair of knowing that nothing will be worth it because pay or not pay seems indifferent, the all or nothing always result in little, in the least, the poor, because the plan is not working. Repeat: Greece will have a worse recession than the United States lived in the Great Depression of 1929. I repeat: the economic plan will fail because it is designed to fail. I repeat: give up the Greeks and resist seeing the commissioned disaster.

The bloc led by Germany was so angry with Mr. Alexis Tsipras chutzpah in marking the referendum that would return him double the lesson of superiority. Until one realizes the fury, which according to the reports of the Eurogroup meeting Sunday made you Wolfgang Schäuble yell. Alexis Tsipras was arrogant, treacherous scored a referendum and was found nimbado of invincibility with the results, as if to a moral beating the other member states. But Germany wanted to destroy both Syriza, revenge and deterrence to other countries elect radical parties, who lost the notion of force. Another recession package will destroy more economy and more jobs in an already lifeless economy.

Victory over Tsipras was resounding. To debt relief, the Syriza has always claimed, is now formally admitted by the IMF, but in order to blame the party, which has nothing to show. It is ridiculous to hear Alexis Tsipras said that it has signed an agreement in which he disbelieves. It's degrading to see him gloat himself Syriza and anchor ourselves deputies of the parties that hate and that hate him. It is frightening to hear the President of the Parliament (which belongs to Syriza and joins the 40 Members who have turned away from Tsipras) Speaking of social genocide. But the ultimate humiliation perhaps see Tsipras said that there is no alternative. Tsipras, the fearsome mastiff indomitable, is tamed as a poodle. Gives pity. The right rejoices. It also gives pity. Because no one to, listen and look to realize the madness that we are sponsoring.

Madness to see a desperate people who, after five years of draconian austerity, has promised new dose of draconian austerity. The madness of making the payment of unsustainable debt than ever, the economic destruction caused - if Greece leaves the euro, lenders can forget, will receive zest. The madness of segregating within the European Union, digging a moat we will depart who knows until far reaches.

Greece only get rid of this scabies if, in addition to debt forgiveness in any way will, have an economic stimulus program. The world, in fact, only recovered from the Great Depression that way. You see the drive to force the country to adopt the never adopted structural reforms, including to have a functioning state and covering taxes. But not destroying the political space and annihilating the economy that such will be achieved. Violence on Syntagma Square is unwound by noisy groups anarcas the unrepresentative. The misery that is spreading, do not: it all.

We need to change the plan. Add to austerity an investment program to stimulate the economy and to support social cases of poverty. This is to be smart, because it is the only way to try to recover some of the debt. Perhaps the hard line of the Germans just want to humiliate the Syriza and have made a plan so that, after the capitulation of Tsipras, change the plan for the better. Up it would be nice if this were true. It would be Machiavellian but at least we would know that the madness would change. And that therefore, Greece would be out of the crisis rather than an exit from the euro. For now, what we see is what we have an entire country to sink in disgrace.

The Greeks are desperate because the situation is desperate. Let us in their shoes for a minute: a government of the extreme left knees after five years of beating, unemployment and austerity, after decades of corruption and theft institutionalized with the central governments. And telling them what follows? Poverty. Perhaps at this time also we were on the street.

By Pedro Santos Guerreiro.

I translated it in Google.

[Jotenko]

I think it is best not to think of Tsipras as a very smart man.

Paul Krugman: "I may have overestimated the competence of the Greek government"

Krugman on assuming that Greece had an exit plan from the Euro: "...it didn't even occur to me that they would be prepared to make a stand without having done any contingency planning ...amazingly - they thought they could simply demand better terms without having any backup plan. So certainly this is a shock. But, you know, in some sense, it's hopeless in any case. ...it's not as if the terms that they were being offered before were feasible. I mean, the new terms are even worse, but the terms they were being offered before were still not going to work. So I, you know, I may have overestimated the competence of the Greek government."

http://cnnpressroom.blogs.cnn.com/2015/07/19/paul-krugman-i-may-have-overestimated-the-competence-of-the-greek-government/

[Faliro]

What it comes down to always with Greece is the romanticism factor. People who have not been there and spoken with locals have some Utopian view of Greeks. Some strange 2nd or 3rd generation Greeks believe the nonsense from the Greek left.

In Greece, there is no plan. There is no thinking about society. Everything is about ego and greed.  I would like it to be the opposite. I would love the place to have some sort of intellectualism.

Tsipras is a fool as are the indoctrinated Greeks who voted for for him.

[Jotenko]

Nobody talks about Greece anymore, I assume everything is now just fine.

[Faliro]

Greeks are making money now with tourism atm or are on the beaches themselves. After summer, the riots will start again..

Details have emerged about a SYRIZA coup to take over the mint and arrest the head of the Bank of Greece.  They were pretty open about it. If Golden Dawn had hatched such a plot, they would all be arrested for treason against the state. However, because these are far leftists, everyone just let it go - whilst being in shock..

http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/2a0a1d94-3201-11e5-8873-775ba7c2ea3d.html

[pcssousa]

Tsipras... 

[Festivus]

What it comes down to always with Greece is the romanticism factor. People who have not been there and spoken with locals have some Utopian view of Greeks. Some strange 2nd or 3rd generation Greeks believe the nonsense from the Greek left.

In Greece, there is no plan. There is no thinking about society. Everything is about ego and greed.  I would like it to be the opposite. I would love the place to have some sort of intellectualism.

Oh it's like that in Greece as well, eh?

[Faliro]

Greece is actually worse than I described it. I was in a bar tonight watching Aromitos against Fener and there were one or two Greeks supporting Fener and making excuses for the ref not calling the right decisions. Doesn't matter who damages Greece - you will always find some Greeks helping the aggressors. Natural born contrarians.

[Festivus]

Greece is actually worse than I described it. I was in a bar tonight watching Aromitos against Fener and there were one or two Greeks supporting Fener and making excuses for the ref not calling the right decisions. Doesn't matter who damages Greece - you will always find some Greeks helping the aggressors. Natural born contrarians.

Why were they supporting Fenerbahçe? Maybe they were fans of a team that is rivals with Atromitos? ?